Pete Dale

"All the news that's fit to sing it's news enough for me" sang Pete Dale on song 1 of Milky Wimpshake's wonderful album "Popshaped". A secret, isolated nod to Phil Ochs in the context of a pop album that was about to become something bigger.
That something is "Betrayed by folk", a protest album – better yet a "topic album", according to the author himself – focused on several controversial topics in the UK; from Tony "Mr poodle" Blair to Bob Geldof, from police brutality to the educational system, Dale doesn't pull his punches on the sorry state of democracy in 2006. Such is his dedication to the roots of protest folk that he puts aside pop music in favour of a classic approach very reminiscent of the late, great Phil Ochs while the caustic lucidity of the lyrics and the focus on current events bears similarities with another great protest singer of our time: Billy Bragg. In this email interview, Pete tells us about his solo record and dwelves deeper in some of his subject matter.

Hello Pete. Can you tell us how did this album came to be?

I've wanted to do a solo album for years, since about 1999 when I recorded my first solo cassette: 9 songs in the vein of Phil Ochs, Pete Seeger, Woody Guthrie, etc. whom I was litening to a lot at the time. I made 5 or 6 copies of the cassette and gave them to friends but decided that the songs weren't quite good enough to release, though a few numbers (such as "Boxing Day Blues" which kicks off the last Milky Wimpshake album) did eventually make it onto vinyl. But I kind of had it in the back of my mind to do a topical/political album at some point in the future, if the opportunity arose. So when Sean Price (of Fortuna Pop) offered to put out such a record in early Summer last year, I immediately started writing songs for it. By the end of the Summer I had 12 or 13 songs ready, so I got together with my old friend Phil Tyler (who plays, like, every instrument you can name), worked up some musical arrangements and then recorded the songs in one night at the medievil castle where Phil's brother Steve lives. Steve did a really good job recording the songs on his 8 track machine but I wasn't happy with my singing on one song, "I.D.on't". So I booked some studio time at a place called First Avenue and called up my friend Barry Hyde (from Futureheads, who you may have heard of? They're pretty popular in the UK) to come and help me sing the song. He coached me through it and even sang with me on a couple of lines, then he ended up playing drums on "Menwith Hill" which (Futureheads bassist) Jaff also ended up playing on. So basically, the whole album just kind of fell together neatly, and I'm really very pleased with it - I know it's not a classic, but I think it came out sounding nice and varied. My favourite song on it is "Betrayed By Folk" - am I allowed to have a favourite song on my own LP???

Some reviews of Betrayed by folk state that you're "not saying anything new". But I think I have missed this type of social/political commentary in the context of pop music for too long, probably since Billy Bragg got married. Are there other people doing this kind of thing in the UK? Chris T-T?

Never heard of Chris T-T, but I loved Billy Bragg from the moment I frist stumbled across him on the radio back in 1984 when I was 13 years old. I learnt to play guitar from the Billy Bragg songbook. But as to other people doing political songs in the UK, I'm not aware of much. I guess that's part of the point of this album - I wanted to talk about the stuff that no-one else seems to want to mention. I wasn't, I must say though, trying to say something "new" in either musical or lyrical terms. Just knockng out simple songs with simple (but hopefully direct - I didn't want anyone to miss the point!) words.


Do you see yourself as an angry man? Does a record like this comes out from anger/indignation or from a need to inform people?

I don't see myself as an angry man, but some things do make me pretty angry - the West's proliferation of weapons of mass destruction, say, or the hypocrisy of ou Labour govenrment. But I'm not really trying to inform people as much as take the piss out of authority and, hopefully, encourage people to question and/or challenge authority in any way they feel they can. Take "Saint Bob?!?" as an example: the guy just pissed me off, and writing a song about how full of shit I think his pro-G8 concert was gave me a cathartic opportunity to release a bit of that annoyance. So maybe, up to a point, it's about making myself feel better by releasing some of that anger and, hopefully, giving other people some songs they can relate to, even if they don't take that further step to, y'know, demonstration or direct action.

You had already made clear in "Mr Poodle" your opinion about New Labour and Tony Blair. Why do you think left government parties in Europe are becoming so reactionary? And what do you think awaits England after Blair?

I can't predict the future for the UK - I hope that there could be a swing back towards liberalist/free-thinking attitudes, but I don't see much sign of it at the moment. I think Europe, as whole, has probably lurched to the right because of global geo-political forces which are too complex to discuss in this context. But in a nutshell, I like to try to think optimistically so I encourage people to have faith that things can get better and I encourage people to attempt to find ways to take an active role in making the world (or you town, city, country, etc., more practically) a better place.

Musically you seem to borrow a lot from the folksinger tradition, from guitar ballads to talking blues. Your history proves you can write pretty solid pop songs. Why did you choose this classic approach?

Because I like traditional music and I enjoy writing in that mode. Also, Sean Price from Fortuna Pop gave me the idea to attempt a "folk"-orientated style when he proposed doing this solo album, so I guess that was the challenge.

I'm curious as why you did use the Cruella DeVille tune for "Menwith Hill".

I just like the tune, so I started singing it and then decided to write my own words for it - I should mention, by the way, that my wife has not forgiven me yet for forgetting to mention in the album's "liner notes" that she actually helped me to write the words on this song.

Can you tell us about Phil Ochs and his importance to you. When did you hear him first and what effect had on you, lirically and musically? He was a great songwriter but people who like Ochs seems to do it more for his integrity than for his music.

I first heard Phil Ochs when a friend played me him - the same friend had been telling me for years that I would like his stuff, but the second I heard that voice and the righteous indignation of his lyrics, I was besotted. What a songwriter! And I love his melodies, his voice - I think I might be the words biggest Phil Ochs fan. I just love his stuff.

Bragg in "St monday" suggested to waste monday mornings at work doing nothing; your stance in "Money" is even more radical (don't go to work). Do you think it's a viable option in a society that is wildly promoting consumerism also to the lower classes while giving them less and less money?

For most of us, work is a necessity which few people hide their hatred of - hence popular expressions like "thank god it's Friday!", etc. I think a radically different society where we all worked a tiny fraction of the hours we currently do is perfectly viable. It would require the kind of oscietal shift which I don't anticipate actually happening in the meantime, however. I recommend, therefore, that people do what I've always done - work as few hours as you possibly can, and reject "consumerism" by spending as little money as you possibly can. But if you've got kids, like me, you have to work really. That's the way "society's pliers" (to use one of Bob Dylan's best descriptions) are holding you - it's no use pretending we can just wave a magic wand and step outside of a society which exerts so much subtle pressure to conform to its work system. But change is possible, and we must all demand it right now.

In "When the morning comes" you worry about the way school is educating children to work and not object. As a parent, what do you believe parents can do to counter this?

Set up alternative schools could be an option, though, in a way, I don't want to force my views on my children - going to an ordinary school helps one to understand "ordinary" people, which is probably better than being a freak all your life. Although, to tell you the honest truth, I've felt like a freak all my life. I guess the song is more reflective than proscriptive - it's what I think, but not necessarily a piece of instruction on a "correct" or better way to live your life.

In "Betrayed by folk" you state your disillusion towards both people and (possibly) folk music. Can you expand on that? (sorry, I had to ask)

It's quite a personal song. I think it's fairly self-explanatory. It's not about being disillusioned with "folk" music, just with some people - I guess the song is just saying "I'm sad that you like me so little when I thought you were my friend". But that's reducing the "message" of the song rather than expanding on it.

I think what comes out from this album is ultimately a strong critic to the modern way of life. But it's a critic equally directed at governments and people who passively accept their decision. Do you think this loss of ideology is a result of media control, general sense of wellness or something else? What worries you the most?

Francis Fukuyama argued, essentially, that after the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989, we had reached the "End of History" in the sense that, if I understand him correctly, all ideological battles have now been played out and liberal democracy has come out on top. I think Francis Fukuyama is full of shit. What worries me the most is... slavery all over the world in the 21st century? Nuclear weapons? Rich powerful nations bombing small weak ones? Abuse of animals? Abuse of workers? Abuse of women? Starvation? Police Brutality? Climate change? Take your pick! "It takes a worried man to sing a worried song/ I'm worried now/ but I won't be worried long", as Woody Guthrie once sang!

What do you think is the role of a protest singer today?
The role of a protest singer is to look behind the facade and encourage people to see 1) that things are fucked up and 2) that they can take action against that fucked up-ness.

Final question: is Slampt still alive? And the Milky Wimpshake? Will they eventually record something new? Are you going to tour with the songs of Betrayed By Folk?

Slampt closed it's "business" in 2000 but Rachel and I are still friends and we are both still making music. Milky Wimpshake played a show in Newcastle a couple of weeks ago which was our first with our new drummer, a bloke called Chris (Grant left after we finished touring the "Popshaped" album). I hope that there will be some new Milky Wimpshake songs eventually, but I have no plans. As to touring solo, I might do a bit of touring but, again, I have no plans at the moment.

Salvatore

Links:

Pete Dale and the Beta Males@myspace: www.myspace.com/petedaleandthebetamales
Pete Dale@indiepop.it: ../bands/petedale.htm
Fortuna POP: www.fortunapop.com
Milky Wimpshake: www.microsofa.net/mw